bea
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by bea on Jan 2, 2014 21:39:35 GMT
To everyone involved in and/or reading this thread. I ask for your prayers for this discussion.
Father, We are your children and are earnestly searching for and seeking your truth. Please keep peace and the spirit of love ever present. Even though there are things we don't agree about there are many things that we do agree on. Help us to remember these things and to remember that you love all of us. Let us not bring shame to your name but let us bring honor and glory instead. Whenever you are coming, we know that you are certainly coming soon. Help us all to be ready for that day. Amen
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Post by mortsmune on Jan 2, 2014 22:45:25 GMT
Actually, I did make my point. You need to read my posts as it appears that you missed some. I will give you some time to catch up. I'm sorry, I meant to say that you have not demonstrated that the wrath of God is NOT occurring during the first half of the Tribulation. You simply stated that you believe that part of the Book of Revelation is giving an overview of the entire period and that the later portion of Revelation just gives a detailed account of the same events. That is an interesting way of looking at Revelation, but it is certainly a controversial view. You didn't really prove that the wrath of God is not occurring during the first half of the Tribulation. You did, however, state that the wrath of Satan took place in the first half of the Tribulation. I think I very well demonstrated that that is not true, that the wrath of Satan clearly occurs during the second half of the Tribulation. With that in mind, let me propose a question to you. If the wrath of God does not occur during the first half of the Tribulation (as you claim) and the wrath of Satan does not occur during the first half of the Tribulation (as I have demonstrated from scripture), then what exactly is going on during the first half of the Tribulation? Apparently, nothing.
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bea
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by bea on Jan 3, 2014 3:37:09 GMT
Well Mort, it looks like the time has come to just agree to disagree. I have proven all of my views with scripture but you choose to either ignore things I have said or attempt to misconstrue others. It is not possible to have any meaningful discussion under those circumstances and I am not going to be drawn into an argument. We are clearly not going to change each other's minds so it is just time to end this. God bless and keep you in his hands.
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Post by mortsmune on Jan 5, 2014 19:13:33 GMT
Well Mort, it looks like the time has come to just agree to disagree. I have proven all of my views with scripture but you choose to either ignore things I have said or attempt to misconstrue others. It is not possible to have any meaningful discussion under those circumstances and I am not going to be drawn into an argument. We are clearly not going to change each other's minds so it is just time to end this. God bless and keep you in his hands. Bea, I just want to make a couple of comments at this point. My intention in this discussion has never been to try to draw you or anybody into an argument, nor has it been my intention to change your mind. The reason I have engaged in this discussion is for the benefit of all the other people who are reading this thread. I make no apology for the fact that I am thoroughly convinced of the pre-tribulation rapture position. You say that I ignored the things you have said. That's not true. I have considered everything you have said. It's just that you haven't said anything that I haven't heard before many times. I think that your arguments are flawed, both from an exegetical/hermeneutical biblical perspected and from a purely logical perspective. In my responses, I have attempted to adhere to the rules of exegetical hermeneutics and logic to the best of my ability. I have studied the Bible for over 45 years. I have listened to many teachings, read many books, articles, and online forums, and watched many videos on both sides of this pretrib/post-trib issue. I have heard all of the arguments many times over. I have studied the passages of scripture quoted on both sides. My conclusion is that the vast preponderance of Biblical evidence supports the pre-trib view. In that light, it is my desire to present, to the best of my ability, the biblical and logical arguments to support that view when someone presents the post-trib view on this forum in order to give the others who come here the opportunity to see the arguments on both sides so that they might make up their own minds. In conclusion, I will say that I believe that the post-trib rapture view leads to a number of serious and highly significant theological problems. I believe those theological problems do not occur with the pre-trib rapture view.
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Post by sunshine on Jan 10, 2014 17:10:22 GMT
I have a question , to anyone that would like to answer. Please tell me in your own words, who is YAHWEH (GOD) to you personally, and what HE means to you. Thank-you to those who answered this.
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Post by mortsmune on Jan 13, 2014 18:08:27 GMT
I have a question , to anyone that would like to answer. Please tell me in your own words, who is YAHWEH (GOD) to you personally, and what HE means to you. Thank-you to those who answered this. I don't think you could have asked two bigger or more important questions. It would be easier to answer these questions if I knew more about what you are after and why you ask this question. To fully answer the first question of who is Yahweh/God, it would really take an entire book. I'll try to give some general answers. My answers must be based on what the Bible teaches about God, for I believe, first of all, that the Bible is the only place we can go to find out who God really is, and of course, the specific name "Yahweh" comes from the Bible. I will not give Bible references for the things I am going to say, as that would make an already long, long topic much longer. I assure you, however, that what I am about to say is based on what the Bible teaches. 1. First of all, God is the Creator of all that exists, including time itself and all matter, all worlds, all beings and all life. He is the beginning of all things. 2. God is eternal. He has no beginning and no end. He existed before anything else. He has always existed. He exists outside of time itself. 3. God is infinite. There are no limits to His existence, power, or knowledge. a. He is omnipotent. He has infinite power, strength, and ability. b. He is omniscient. He has infinite knowledge. There is nothing that He doesn't know. He has always known everything that there is to know. He has no need to learn, as he always has known everything. He cannot be surprised by any event, since He already knew of that event before it happened. c. He is omnipresent. His presence fills all creation. He is everywhere at the same time. While God fills the universe, that does not mean that the universe is God. This brings us to the next point about God. 4. God is transcendent. He is utterly above and separate from His creation. This is partly what is meant when the Bible says that God is holy. He is different from anything else that exists. There is nothing else in all that exists that is like God. 5. God is immutable. This means He does not change. He cannot be weakened, lessened, made greater, and He cannot be changed or affected by anything in His creation. He cannot be killed or destroyed. He cannot be overcome or conquered. What He is He has always been and will always be. 6. God is self-existent. He exists completely without the need of any outside substance, power, or influence. He needs nothing. He is complete in Himself. 7. God is a Trinity (Tri-Unity). This means that God is one, united being that is comprised of three distinct, but not separate, persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (For more information on this topic, I would suggest reading the Athanasian Creed, which can be found on the Internet. I would also suggest reading the book Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. He has a very good discussion of the Trinity in that book. For biblical proof of this doctrine, there are numerous good, sound websites where it is discussed and many books that cover the topic. There are also thousands of videos on YouTube on the topic. Warning! There are those who do not believe in the Trinity, but I assure you that it is clearly taught in the Bible. But it is not truly comprehensible by our human minds. That's why there are those who don't believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. 8. God is a spirit. God is not part of the physical universe. He is not a physical being and has no physical body. 9. God is light, glorious, full of splendor. The Bible says that no man can look on God and live and that no one has seen God at any time. 10. God is righteous. This means that He is morally good and perfect. There is no evil or unrighteousness in Him. He never makes mistakes or errors. He is the standard of right and wrong for the entire universe. Right is right because it is what God is and is in accord with His character. Wrong is wrong because it is not in accord with God's character. Because of this, God must judge and punish what is not righteous (this is what the Bible calls "sin"). 11. God is love. This means that God loves and cares for His creation and is always motivated to bring about the highest good for His created beings. However, this does not always coincide with our desires. We often desire that which is ultimately destructive to our lives. It is His love that has produced redemption for humankind through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Though God is love, He is also righteous. In order to redeem us, He must satisfy His righteousness, which demands that unrighteousness (sin) be judged and punished. This is the purpose of the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.
Regarding the name Yahweh, that is a whole other issue. Here I will just say that it is the name that God gave to the nation of Israel in the Old Covenant with Abraham and Moses. The name is believed to come from the Hebrew verb "to be" and is generally thought to mean "the self-existent one." In the New Testament (New Covenant) God reveals Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and the name Yahweh is never used in the New Testament or by Jesus Himself.
This is a long answer, but the question demands a long answer. I tried to make it as short as I could. I'll answer the second part of your question in a separate post.
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Post by mortsmune on Jan 13, 2014 18:22:35 GMT
I have a question , to anyone that would like to answer. Please tell me in your own words, who is YAHWEH (GOD) to you personally, and what HE means to you. Thank-you to those who answered this. The second part of your question is what He means to me. Honestly, I'm not sure exactly how to answer that question or what it is you're looking for. Let me just say that God is the Creator. He made me. He made the universe around me. He redeemed me through the Blood of His Son, Jesus Christ. He purchased me through that redemptive process. He owns me; I am "bought with a price." My human life is meaningless outside of God. Without Him, I am nothing; my life is nothing. My eternal future is dependent on Him. There is no hope without Him. When no one else cares, God loves me.
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Post by sunshine on Jan 14, 2014 4:25:00 GMT
mortsmune thank-you. You have answer my question and so beautiful written. Thank-you for taking the time to do so. It was so very kind of you to put so much into it. I love God to. May the LORD bless you . bye for now. If I have anymore questions would it be ok to ask you?
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Post by mortsmune on Jan 14, 2014 5:40:54 GMT
You're very welcome, sunshine. I would be happy to do my best to answer any questions you have.
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